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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/06/2009 19:14:54)
Sean,
I figured as much when I initially saw the service requirement, which was no doubt the result of a lot of pushback from the Congress (and DoD, I would assume). You're certainly correct when you said that without some compromise [on our part], that we might well have ended up with no bill at all. The folks here know that Jerry and you did the best that you could, and we really do appreciate your efforts on our behalf. I do feel badly for the folks who won't qualify initially, but have hope that subsequent legislation might expand the coverage for a medal down the road. In any event, thanks! You guys are doing a great job.
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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seaneagan
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2#
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Rank:none
Score:376
Posts:376
Registered:01/17/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/06/2009 21:39:30)
Thanks USMC We did our best now lets bring it on home this next month we need to go on the offensive with our lawmakers it was so difficult getting it started this time I want to giterdone. I feel like this could be our year with webb on board.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sean P. Eagan
ACWV Public Affairs Director
http://cold-war-veterans-blog.blogspot.com
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jcochr
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3#
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From: USA 
Registered:11/29/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/06/2009 22:00:19)
Sean, Thanks for your hard work - I agree that if the service requirement was necessary to make the medal happen, then it is the way to go. Hopefully the service requirements can be modified in the future. Having Jim Webb behind this is a BIG factor. I am going to write him to thank him for his support (I am from Virginia).  Jim Cochran MSgt, USAFR Retired USAF 1972-76 ANG 1977-94
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim C.
USAF 1972-76
ANG 1977-1994
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Jerald Terwilliger
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4#
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Rank:none
Score:582
Posts:582
From: USA
Registered:11/29/2006
Time spent: 17408 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/06/2009 22:20:40)
As Sean said, it was a battle and there was give and take on both sides. Working with Senator Snowe's staff
was a pleasure and the best we could do was the 24 months or the overseas.
Joe Sixeas worked with the cosponsors staff members to bring about the least amount of opposition from
those concerned.
I know it will be hard for some members to accept this. We take the best, and there is always hope that in the
future the time line can be changed and made retroactive .
I did my best and to some my best just wasn't good enough; but we will still keep trying to make it more equitable to everyone.
Jerry
--------------------------------------------------------------
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
US Navy 1960-1970
-./--.-/-.-./.
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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/07/2009 14:29:25)
Jerry,
Wasn't Joe Sixeas a staffer for Rob Andrews, the Congressman (and Cold War Medal sponsor) from New Jersey?
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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Shuman 14
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:188
Posts:188
From: USA
Registered:12/17/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To seaneagan
(Date Posted:11/07/2009 20:54:04)
Reply to seaneagan (11/06/2009 18:50:23)
As far as service requirement we did our best we proposed a shorter term but that was a no go thats why the B and c provision leaves leeway for exceptions. Best we could do my apologies if it effects you. I myself was 2 days short of 2 years service and was not sure I would qualify. It is a different bill than same old one hopefully it will get through this time . this was a fight and a struggle to get this introduced and without some compromise we might not have ever got another bill. If people want to gripe go right ahead; but we should all be thankful we have one more and maybe a last crack at this. This is the first last time I will address this issue but I hope everyone thanks jerry for breaking through with Snowe It made finding someone to introduce a House version easy. kudos Jerry
So what happened to the bold statement that Dr. Tims and other members of the leadership made in the past about ensuring every honorably serving Cold Warrior, Active Guard, Reserve, would be honored with a Medal to recognize their Service? If you knew about this during the drafting of these Bills, WHY did you NOT bring it to the attention of the membership then? The main reason the ACWV split from the CWVA was because the leadership there wouldn't listen to the membership. I'm happy that finally it appears that Congress is listening and will finally honor those who served during the Cold War, but it appears that Reservists and Guardsmen got tossed overboard without a thought. 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph J. Clune
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SACWARRIOR
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7#
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Rank:none
Score:130
Posts:130
From: USA
Registered:12/13/2003
Time spent: 17477 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/07/2009 21:22:02)
I will not attempt to try and curb everyone's initial furry over what this Bill looks like but, does everyone remember the discussion of campaign vs. victory medal? This version is the campaign medal, we haven't seen the final text yet, ultimately not our decision, but that is what was intended. My personal beef was, if it had to be a long service time like 24 months it better be a campaign medal. The victory medal version would have been for all whom served, those of you who just wanted acknowledgment that would have been the version for you, it would however come without alleviating any ills from those without a campaign medal. The victory medal is an entirely different medal and has tuff issues politically. I can say that there is a private initiative outside of ACWV with Government inquiries to the victory medal that may be discussable down the road. Let's say the CWSM is a clean ACWV initiative that is not wrapped up in the inquiry or has a rub to it. Victory will play out as this gets traction.
I personnaly understand the guard / reserve issue and like Sean mentioned, we have left open an option for DoD to make exemptions to the criteria, B & C can clarify further any requirements for the medal DoD sees fit. This part was the sticker with DoD. So, it is possible they could set criteria that is less than 24 months service they wish or fit their ideals. That could mean units, time in service, assignments etc...
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.2743:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.4051:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.RES.900:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.CON.RES.207:
scott[at]americancoldwarvets[dot]org
http://membership-americancoldwarvets.org
(ICBM Master Team Chief, Missileer, USAF)
ACWV - Founding Member
AAFM - Life Member
NAAV - Life Member
"The long bitter years of the Cold War are over. America and her allies have won; totally, decisively, and overwhelmingly....So thank you SAC. Job well done. Enjoy your retirement."
--Gen. Colin Powell, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, 1992
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PastNikeVet
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:499
Posts:499
From: USA
Registered:11/21/2006
Time spent: 8278 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/08/2009 00:08:36)
Okay folks my slant on this Cold War Victory or Cold War Service this bill as I understand it is for the service medal that is a major change from our goal to start with as the victory medal died folks we knew it was CPR just to get the victim's heart pumping again Joe you as well other members can look at this as negitive as you wish, yet to quote the line from Frankinstein { It Live's } that monster was not perfect in the story and if you look at today how much of that fiction has become real life improvements in short it carried on from the actions of the people.
Do you folks really think that even if this Cold War Service Medal is given true life thats the end of it, we pack up the tent and stand down after all the prior years by some { Paul, Sean & Dr. Tims } have near a decade in persuit of a medal that it ?
Also what about Jerry,Scott other members who spent years just to get a medal on the map might it be selling them short as well to presume they planned to go to pasture once any old medal came along some folks forget quick that we had as a goal to get a foot in the door and procede from that point.
I am not going to go that route Dr. Tims,Sean & Jerry thank you for giving life back to our goals ever forward members staying back was never our goal and this is not back there, its here and now then the future ahead.
PNV
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http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/08/2009 08:38:05)
Scott,
Thanks for the explanation and background information. It was very interesting, and provided some helpful context in which to view the current situation. Thanks again for posting.
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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Shuman 14
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10#
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Rank:none
Score:188
Posts:188
From: USA
Registered:12/17/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/08/2009 10:18:47)
I'm sorry if it seems if I'm attacking, I know everyone here did the best they could, it just seems that politicians ALWAYS discount the service of the Guard and Reserves.
We don't sit on our butts and do nothing, I know the majority of the Guard and Reserves conduct real world missions while in a "training" status during drill weekends and annual training periods.
USCGR Reservists conduct real world rescues on their Drill weekends.
USAFR/AFNG planes fly real mission every month from in-flight refueling to transporting men and supplies across the Nation.
Many USAR/ARNG soldiers fall in on their AD counterparts for two week periods and take over their missions.
The ARNG Engineer unit that built a section or road in Honduras during their AT wasn't doing it for "training" it was in support of a real world mission.
I know Reservists today that have been to Iraq three times and I know AD types that have never left CONUS.
That's why we have four medals for the War on Terror: GWOTSM, GWOTEM, ICM, and ACM. They take into acount different levels of service.
If you're telling me the plan is a CWSM for the AD and a CWVM for everyone, I'm cool with that. My service during the Cold War was nothing that stands out but it and the contributions that all Guardsmen and Reservists provided ensured our victory and that needs, must, be recognized.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph J. Clune
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JIM WELLER
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11#
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Rank:none
Status:Still Serving
Score:388
Posts:388
From: USA
Registered:05/19/2008
Time spent: 13245 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/08/2009 18:13:22)
Joseph,
I agree about the service of Guardsman and Reservists. I was one of the initiators that pushed for the National Defense Service Medal being awarded to Guardsmen and Reservists during the SWA (Kuwait) Campaign. My argument was that after the Total Force was installed and without any draft going on, the reserve components were not a place to hide, they were part of the Total Force and needed to be treated as such. That argument was accepted by the Secretary of Defense. DOD followed that line during the current conflict. I believe that they would add a reserve provision such as completed a reserve enlistment of say four years with an Honorable Discharge during the Cold War period. I truly support that a Cold War Service Medal should not have any different requirement than the current Global War On Terrorism Medal, which I see as a direct corresponding type of award (30 days consecutive service or 60 days non-consecutive). This legislation is only a start. The House needs to act. Obama needs to sign it. Fire out letters to those that can modify, not kill it. This includes Sec. Gates. Even after it is approved, it can be modified, as awards have in the past. I don't want to leave any Cold Warrior behind, especially my brother Guardsmen. But you eat an elephant one bite at a time.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Pennsylvania Keystone State Director ACWV
"History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
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Frank_T
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12#
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Rank:none
Score:89
Posts:89
Registered:01/21/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/08/2009 18:41:25)
Wow! I finally cracked aimoo's code and managed to sign in! The length of service requirement was a problem for us -- I knew guys getting commissioned out of college in the early 1960s, but the army had too many officers (how's that for irony!) but then there was Vietnam. So guys who expected to do their obligatory 2 years started getting early outs.. In the 1950s, it was SOP for to request an early out if you weren't going to re-up. So a lot of guys drafted for 2 years wound up "only" putting in 21 months of active duty. So we asked that the service requirement be cut -- tried 18 months, but no go. So we suggested that Congress authorize SECDEF to determine what other folks (i.e., less than 24 months and non-deployed) are eligible. We hope that is a loophole DOD will use. But too much push-back if it gets scored off the charts. Once we get it passed, we can try to widen eligibility at SECDEF's discretion. Now the guard is a different item. I know this sounds like a technicality, but until NG unit is federalized, they belong to the governor. So it may be that governors will take their cue from CWSM at the federal level (LA and Alaska already have created CW medal or ribbon). Regarding co-sponsors, all senators are important on S.2743, but we really need to press members of the Armed Services Committee to come on board. Michigan and Arizona (Levin and McCain) are super-important. I hope Webb's influence will carry the day in the committee, but it would be so great if Lieberman (CT), Akaka (HI), Lemieux and Nelson (FL), Nelson (NE), Collins (ME) Wicker (MS), Chambliss (GA), and Graham (SC) can sign on. Others, of course, but personnel subcommittee is key, and Webb's leadership is crucial. We have postcards to use in lobbying for this bill. I can send you a handful if you write me at ftims@aol.com with your mailing address. IDEA: Your Legion, VFW, AMVETS, DAV post are good places to get folks to sign up and provide postcards (pre-addressed to your senators). Design for the postcards is shown on the home page, right below the VFW magazine links, if you have not seen it already. Thanks to Jerry, Sean, Scott, and the gang -- we have momentum. Let's get 96 more cosponsors. Also push the members on the new House CWSM bill. We will win in 2010.
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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 13:26:39)
LebanonGrenadaEraVet,
Hey buddy, I gotta disagree with your statement:
"and lastly, yada yada yada about getting a foot in the door, once this medal gets approved and passes, reservist are on their own bar none. Nobody will even look back on getting a medal for the reservist during the cold war once they get theirs".
Even if you were correct in your assessment that the people getting this medal (which includes Active Duty AND a bunch of Reservists who did initial active-duty tour) were a bunch of selfish, one-way people, (and I don't think you're correct, BTW), everyone here will still fight for an all-encompassing Cold War Victory Medal. Even if you attribute the worst motives to everyone here, we'll all fight for a CWVM because we'll ALL get one too! In this case at least, self-interest is in everyone's interest, so we're good to go, regardless of whether our motives for our support and actions are altruistic or otherwise. The actions will yield the same result - a Cold War Victory Medal - that will make everyone happy.
Just my take on the topic.
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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nikehercules1
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14#
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From: USA
Registered:10/26/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To USMC%5FKinda%5FGuy
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 15:13:40)
Reply to USMC_Kinda_Guy (11/07/2009 15:29:25)
Jerry,
Wasn't Joe Sixeas a staffer for Rob Andrews, the Congressman (and Cold War Medal sponsor) from New Jersey?
USMC_Kinda_Guy Ben Graziano was the Andrews Staffer who was responsible for the Cold War Medal Legislation. He now works for Jack Conners who is a NJ Assemblyman and Chair of Military and Veteran Affairs. Bill
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Frank_T
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15#
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Rank:none
Score:89
Posts:89
Registered:01/21/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 15:41:16)
Joe, I hear you. We wanted a more inclusive bill, but we didn't write this bill. That said, it is on the table and we need to get it passed. Reservists did their chare, and deserve recognition (more than a certificate). I even remember they flew supply missions from CONUS to Vietnam, and during the 1968 buildup in Korea, they ferried F-4s AND served at Kunsan AB -- I had a beer with some of them at the O Club in summer of that year. An infantry company of Indiana NG served in Vietnam. Air NG flew Bear Watch. So they earned recognition. That said, I don't know what we can do except push for the bill we have in play now.
We aren't giving up un a more inclusive version, but we do need to push for a live bill as opposed to no bill at all. Obviously, it's not ideal but it's the best we can do at this time. On the positive side, it does somewhat validate Cold War service, even for those who served but did not qualify for CWSM under this version. In 1989, the wall came down -- there are plenty of folks who like to pretend that we the troops had nothing to do with winning the Cold War. But it will be nice to have our country finally recognize the part we played.
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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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16#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 16:55:20)
Bill (aka nikehercules1),
Thanks for setting me straight re. Andrews staffer; memory's the first thing to go!
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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JIM WELLER
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17#
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Rank:none
Status:Still Serving
Score:388
Posts:388
From: USA
Registered:05/19/2008
Time spent: 13245 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 18:05:40)
LebanonGrenadaEraVet,
Nobody is forgetting our reservists in this organization. Nor is our leadership paid so this forum is not critical to their survival, they are here because they believe in our cause. And I disagree that medal criteria can not change. As I mentioned before, the National Defense Medal was given out to only active duty troops during Korea and Vietnam, but was awarded to the reserve components during SWA (Kuwait) and the GWOT. Also the Vietnam Service Medal criteria was expanded over the years, Veterans of the Balkans were originally denied the AFEM and then were awarded it, etc. I have been associated with other military operations, but didn't make the cut of the criteria for a medal due to service length or geographical location. And I have been on the reverse, I qualified for an Iraq Campaign Medal, but many of my troops in Kuwait that busted their ass working with vast amounts of explosives, wore full chemical gear during missile attacks, etc didn't rate. I'll keep fighting for them as the Thailand veterans were initially denied the Vietnam Service Medal, but are now eligible.
Just don't strike out at your fellow Cold War veterans out of misplaced anger.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Pennsylvania Keystone State Director ACWV
"History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
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JIM WELLER
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18#
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Rank:none
Status:Still Serving
Score:388
Posts:388
From: USA
Registered:05/19/2008
Time spent: 13245 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 19:17:27)
I was CONUS after spending my time in West Germany 1985-1987. Might have been eating pizza, too; )
--------------------------------------------------------------
Pennsylvania Keystone State Director ACWV
"History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
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SACWARRIOR
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19#
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Rank:none
Score:130
Posts:130
From: USA
Registered:12/13/2003
Time spent: 17477 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 20:16:13)
RE: I wasn't CONUS making PIZZA runs watching Monday Night Football.
Your frustration is understandable, but the CONUS bashing crap I cannot tolerate. Can we move past this CONUS vs. OCONUS garbage? I know the OCONUS folk have a tuff time with CONUS duty, but there are billets and critical missions that served CONUS that had much more of a job and actually contributed more directly to the mission than some OCONUS. You say your not striking out at anyone, but this type of talk can't stand.
The incredible, guys actually involved, in this org have gone above and beyond any realistic persons perseverance and patience and at great personal cost, health and wealth. I can tell you we not only haven't taken salary, we actually pay for the tools out of our own pocket to keep this effort going. The marketing and advertising I am paying for as well as the membership site and software for instance.
Glen is right, no one has forgotten the reservist and guard guys. The ability to communicate all the time, with every thought, and with every concern, and every twist to forum members in a timely way is hard to do. Remember, issues we are up against would boggle your mind and no way can be put in writing in an open forum, we are available to discuss off line and we are available always.
On a possitive: Look what has happened this week, the world celebrated freedom, (not with us) but it was because of you, We have congress (IG) criminally investigating what happened to our medal in 2001(you didn't know this till now)which has taken a lot of our time but could bare fruit for all vets potentially, We have resolutions in to get us a Cold War Vets Day nationally so every year we can make them remember how they treated us(we win), I am in discussion with private people to ad a Cold War memorial to a VA cemetery(we win), we have a Medal bill actually introduced and greatly timed no matter what it is(we win), and then we have the American people who are now coming around and realizing their threatened liberty and starting to think that maybe they had it good on our watch, the people are the key to our next victory, we need them to understand why what we did for them is key to our history as a nation and our morale. The people will not let our victory slip away, may let it get close, but I have faith they will come around, we need to push them.
We stood tuff for a long long time fighting a Beast, don't let the Beast get under your skin. We will prevail.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.2743:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.4051:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.RES.900:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.CON.RES.207:
scott[at]americancoldwarvets[dot]org
http://membership-americancoldwarvets.org
(ICBM Master Team Chief, Missileer, USAF)
ACWV - Founding Member
AAFM - Life Member
NAAV - Life Member
"The long bitter years of the Cold War are over. America and her allies have won; totally, decisively, and overwhelmingly....So thank you SAC. Job well done. Enjoy your retirement."
--Gen. Colin Powell, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, 1992
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Frank_T
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20#
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Rank:none
Score:89
Posts:89
Registered:01/21/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/09/2009 20:43:35)
TO Scott (SAC Warrior)
Great post! Or as my son would say, "EXCELLENT, DUDE!"
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PastNikeVet
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21#
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Rank:none
Score:499
Posts:499
From: USA
Registered:11/21/2006
Time spent: 8278 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 01:17:06)
I have no idea if folks remember my saying this when it came to Cold War Veterans I had a saying " We Showed Up " it was about all of us when I said it, when I talked to other people even fellow veterans, family, friends and politicians.
Do you think I as a member was alone feeling that way no I am not I spoke for all the leadership I belive as well, I do wish folks would keep that in mind as well that saying We Showed Up !
For those who shed their blood with me are my brother/sister, I wish that I was smart enough to remember what English King who said that I do hope our more learned members can provide it.
PNV
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http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
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Cannon_Cocker
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22#
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Rank:none
Status:enjoying life
Score:58
Posts:58
From: USA
Registered:08/19/2008
Time spent: 5394 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 03:50:26)
PNV, The answer is Henry V...here is the whole speech....the area in red is the one to which I think that you are referring. Enter the KINGWESTMORELAND. O that we now
had here
But one ten thousand of those men
in England
That do no work to-day!
KING. What's he that wishes
so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair
cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to
live,
The fewer men, the greater share of
honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not
one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments
wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my
desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man
from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great
an honour
As one man more methinks would share
from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not
wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland,
through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this
fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall
be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his
purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with
us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes
safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day
is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see
old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his
neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and
show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's
day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall
our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household
words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and
Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach
his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go
by,
From this day to the ending of the
world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood
with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so
vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they
were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles
any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's
day.
Shuman14 and LebanonGrenadaEraVet, You bled like I did, You sweated like I did, You missed Home and family like I did. Your served your country like I did, and if needed you would have laid down your lives, like I would have. Your are My Brothers. Our bond was born in a war. And NO one shall ever change My mind about that. Cannon Cocker
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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
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PastNikeVet
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23#
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Rank:none
Score:499
Posts:499
From: USA
Registered:11/21/2006
Time spent: 8278 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 04:18:16)
Most humble thanks C.C. for having my 6 hence my statement " We Showed Up " is this section, That he which hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart; his passports shall be made,And crowns for convoy put in his purse; I see this as saying it all.
PNV
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http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
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pdudkowski
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24#
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Rank:none
Status:Navy Veteran
Score:221
Posts:221
From: USA
Registered:01/04/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 06:46:06)
Read the dissent, understand the anger, but it is misplaced. Silent no more on the subject I must start by saying you get out of this group what you put into it.
Start with leadership. Never ending the fight, using the knowledge we have gained over the last decade, we / they kept up the heat and a bill materialized. Don't sell anyone short for an elected officials perspective on how they see this going to the floor, getting it into an NDAA and hoping for a victory. No one in Congress plans to introduce a failure. It is in their interest to submit a winner.
Next, words of being sold out by the leadership is a preposterous notion. Go to Military.com and read some comments there. Bitter only begins to tell the story, again, in a way that is derogatory to those who keep up the fire.
Third, as of now, Jerry and the board are looking for people to run for office. Easy to criticize from the outside. Here is an opportunity to see first hand the difficulties and sacrifices folks have made on every single Cold War Veterans behalf, not just the membership or forum posters. If you stay on the outside looking in, you'll never understand. You want change, run for office. Those who have served are tired. New ideas needed. You do matter and need to stand up as well.
Fourth, I think it was Kerry Yen who said we need to stay united more than ever. Absolutely. Guard and Reservists are now acting as if the medal has been approved and only those of us with active duty are now parading down Main St. wearing our new medal. There is no medal! The fight continues.
Next, you have to build a case. We all showed up is a fact but not one likely to garner support. Be smart, do your research. I can find no Service Medal that requires two years of service. No precedent for that kind of time. You could have enlisted 3 months after WWII ended and still received a Victory Medal. If the medal bill, as proposed gets past, I see it at par with the AFSM and that has no two year requirement. Hell, the award of the CIB was the only criteria for receiving the Bronze Star for meritorious service in WWII. Take the time, research requirements for every service medal and have facts at the ready. You can't win an argument on passion alone.
Lastly, we have all pledged our support for every individual with skin in the game to be recognized. No one has backed away from that premise. However, the choices made by reservists and guardsmen was a conscious choice made by the individual and if never federalized or called to active duty, you may get the short straw. If you choose to drop out of high school, get a diploma or go on to grad school, you made a choice and in doing so, receive what the world has valued you at. No ones fault for doing what they wanted to do but again, the leadership is not at fault.
In summary, stay with the program, get involved beyond writing e-mails and sounding off on the forum. We are all brothers / sisters who did our share. If a movement grows to break away and start anew for those who feel left out, both groups will be weaker, quieter and less potent.
I salute every one of you for doing your part. We won the Cold War as a team, not individuals. Brothers all. Happy Veterans Day my fellow Veterans and you are indeed Veterans.
I spoke here today with passion, of my own sense of a need, for many of you made me want to shout and cry at the same time. It was hard reading the posts daily and staying quiet knowing the majority doesn't understand the hell and passion these good folks dove in to. I shall say no more on the subject except if you think we don't have burn out, please notice I will not seek any elected position this year. I have done my time on your behalf and I am tired. Not going away but I don't need a title to help.
Please feel free to rebutt in open forum or by private message.
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Paul V. Dudkowski
Charter Member, ACWV
US Navy, 1973 to 1978
"Dedicated to the Cause"
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Frank_T
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25#
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Rank:none
Score:89
Posts:89
Registered:01/21/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 10:40:00)
Thank you, Paul, well said.
A long time ago (right after Vietnam) a young Marine captain (USMC Retired) who had distinguished himself and been badly wounded leading a platoon in VN published an article in a veterans magazine. The title of that article:
GET INVOLVED, DAMN IT! He went on to accomplish a great deal.
The author's name? Jim Webb. I think he would say the same thing today.
(Message edited by Frank_T On 11/10/2009 10:43:15)
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USMC_Kinda_Guy
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26#
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Rank:none
Score:156
Posts:156
Registered:01/15/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 10:42:49)
Scott,
Fabulous post buddy; thanks for sharing all that inside scoop. Fascinating stuff, especially that bombshell about the Inspector General (IG) investigating why the hell the Cold War Medal didn't go through back in 2001 (unlike the KDSM, which did achieve medal status). Thorougly enjoyed reading it; gave me a much greater appreciation for all the ongoing things that the leadership does behind the scenes. THANKS!!!
Paul,
Excellent post; you've covered the situation expertly, and I couldn't agree with your sentiments more. Kudos buddy.
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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Cobra11A
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27#
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Registered:12/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 11:02:50)
First, thank you to those who have spent the time to get this bill going. I must admit I do not have a problem with the 2 year requirement as long as there are exceptions for activation/deployment (as in the 30/60 day rule). This criteria is really no different than the criteria for most other service medals. Asking for more than what is customary would have surely killed the bill. In my opinion this does not disrespect the National Guard or Reserves at all as it includes those who were deployed for 30 consecutive or 60 nonconsective days. To me this is inclusive and sets some criteria to the medal that makes it worth wearing.
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Cobra11a
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cazman
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28#
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From: USA
Registered:11/06/2009
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To LebanonGrenadaEraVet
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 12:40:46)
Reply to LebanonGrenadaEraVet (11/09/2009 10:53:06)
I hope this bill passes for the sake of this forum too. If it does not pass at that level with the "NEW" eligibiity requirements, this forum will lose some membership and will gather very little to no support from reservist. We will have to branch out on our own. Credibility with the American Legion and VFW and Amvets after supporting a bill for ALL VETERANS to include reservist will be scratching their heads...."Uh...this is not what we put on the table." Not trying to stir up crap or anything here, but OH WELL. This bill better pass for your sakes, and lastly, yada yada yada about getting a foot in the door, once this medal gets approved and passes, reservist are on their own bar none. Nobody will even look back on getting a medal for the reservist during the cold war once they get theirs. First let me appologize for not being active on this forum as i was in the CWVA days.A family member had some health issues which slowed me down.I have never stopped working behind the scenes.When Frank T was president i delivered my REP English each time. Wehave a new rep and progress is slow.As an elected official i have input with the offices of Casey and Specter. Now my two cents. I am dissapointed that a large group have been left out.I feel abandoned. Reserve and Guard are constantly ignored or abused.I agree with Shuman and lebanon grenada era vet.At my stage in life its time to move on and realize that if it happens it may be too late for some.As an NCO we were taught no one is left behind everyone comes out.It is imbued in every soldier. Two of my best freinds are origional band of brothers.I have met Maj. Richard Winters. So when you read that passage from Shakespere take a que from the real brothers. They have stuck together as one. I need to pull back and move on to other fights. Thank you and hope to hear from you. Go Army Hooahh
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LebanonGrenadaEraVet
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29#
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Registered:08/22/2005
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 13:08:09)
Thanks Paul for your comments, all well taken. I am really not angry about a medal. Honestly, its not a big deal for me. I just felt that the poor reservist here writing letters to congress for the past 8 years suddenly got a bomb dropped whenever the new medal active duty requirements came out with no prior notice or anything. I personally didn't write any letters, I didn't write my congressman, I didn't do squat and dont' really deserve squat. (inasfar as a medal goes) I have other things on my agenda besides a Cold War Medal to be truthful. There is no surprises here when it comes to the reserves anything for anything or nothing. I know everyone here is excited about it, and all have a good dash of hope. I am not one to start a new blog or new agenda or break off even though there is nothing to break off from. I am NOT A MEMBER HERE, and NEVER WAS. I went back and deleted some of my postings that I am certain drew some anger and interesting responses. You're right. The leadership had to do what they had to do to keep this bill alive. Sometimes it just sux to have been only a reservist, but I'm not beating myself up for a decision I made some 30 years ago. It's not like I committed a crime. We get placed in same boat as someone that got a bad discharge from active duty. That part above any medal is what gets my goat. My anger may have been slightly misdirected, however, I still stand that there was bound to be friction about this when suddenly criteria changed after ten years of a different criteria being sounded. (I know it was the only solution left for the bill medal to continue to live)
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"Everybody's talkin 'bout the new kid in town but I don't wanna hear it".
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LebanonGrenadaEraVet
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30#
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Registered:08/22/2005
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Re:service requirement
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 13:22:17)
Thank you for your comments CAZMAN. I appreciate you point of view. It really isn't worth getting all bent out of shape over a medal. Like you said, time to move on. The truth is, I have always moved on. I didn't do anything like expend letters, postage, letters to congress. It's a WASTE OF MY TIME. I caught on to that a long time ago. I knew the active duty/reserve criteria would come to a head one day. I voiced my concerns here about a few times. So with that conflict in mind, I never joined the group or wasted time in trying to gain this medal. Now that all know the truth here, respect for me just took a brutal turn via KINGDOME OF COWSHIRE and then down to HELL. I didn't do anything to deserve this medal except join up.
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"Everybody's talkin 'bout the new kid in town but I don't wanna hear it".
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