I have always thought of Joe Hooper and Audie Murphy, when, the words war heros were spoken. Lately though, I have thought often of conscientious objectors during the Vietnam War, who though opposed to war or killing on whatever grounds, went ahead and served their time after voicing their objections, sometimes during combat and with heroism as well. I have always had great admiration for these people, who did not opt for Washington, Canada, Europe, or burning their draft cards. I was curious as to what other veterans felt about this subject.....
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:09/29/2008 12:43:52)
When it comes to Conscientious Objectors, only one man in American History stands out as a hero. Sergeant Alvin York, (Medal of Honor). His story is well known. Some would say legendary thanks to Hollywood. As far as C.O.s of Vietnam go, I know of none although I'd be guessing they were represented, perhaps by the dozens or more. I'm sure the thousands of quasi Canadians would say they were C.O.s but that was the excuse, not reality. I guess if someone is that dead set against doing something for personal and religious convictions and shows up for duty anyway, then is some respects, they are a little tougher mentally than most. Almost like getting over a fear.
Now Lostexair, what the heck made you think of this thing and not just think about it but want to discuss it?
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Paul V. Dudkowski
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US Navy, 1973 to 1978
"Dedicated to the Cause"
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:09/29/2008 13:40:01)
Paul maybe he was thinking of the two crew in the White House one hid out in the Guard(he should have been busted for not reporting for that phyiscal) while the VP had five deferments at least those C.O.s whom stayed home and faced the music were willing to pay the price, BTW I belive the MOH has been awarded to more than Sgt.York in fact a few medics to say the least.
Check out the MOH website what these folks have done is amazing 5000 degree flare with bare hands !
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:09/29/2008 14:32:38)
You know, posing an interesting question can get one to do some quick research. When it comes to Conscientious Objectors, I erred with Alvin C. York. Alvin, applied for CO status but since that hillbilly church he attended was not recognized, his request was denied. He maintained his argument for CO throughout the war.
Glen, there were two other Medal of Honors awarded to C.O.s.
I'm sure there were plenty of others who distinguished themselves with valor on the battlefield to a lesser extent that required for the Medal of Honor.
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Paul V. Dudkowski
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US Navy, 1973 to 1978
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:09/29/2008 20:20:52)
I just thought it pretty amazing that people would even speak up about being against military service, but then go ahead and do it anyway, as compared to someone who would find any way they could not to go. I was kind of curious how draftees felt about it. I have to respect that myself. It is true that I was thinking about others who found ways to avoid risk of harm, it is a big contrast. If they called you, you either went to boot camp, jail, college, or wherever. I find those who objected but went anyway kind of rare. I have thought about all this quite a bit since vets were attacking each other over their service for the past few years. (you know, swiftboat, Kerry, Murtha, Bush etc.etc.)
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:09/29/2008 23:14:01)
Oddly this brings to question those drafted VS those whom joined ,my father, uncles drafted or myself, son joined did it mater how or just that we all showed up to include the C.O.s ?
Next is this something that leads to the my service is better humm or is it how one served,level of service or as I belive the Nam saying "All gave some Some gave all" enough to make the point?
Being against military service, particularly with regards the draft to me is not inconsistent with serving. If one has served, I feel they have earned an unquestioned right to criticize the draft. This applies in my opinion for veterans who are both draftees and enlistees.
If you speak of freedom, then you would have to support Jack Murtha's right to criticize when he wishes to do so. Some don't like what he says, and I can empathize with his critics to a point, but he paid his dues, and earned the right. Freedom isn't free, but its aspects also aren't retractable for those who served no matter what you think about what they said.
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:10/01/2008 13:31:33)
For the subject!!!
I myself joined, it timed out to be right at the end of the Vietnam War. My Father was drafted in 1950, he had just gotten a good trucking company going and had 3 trucks running, because of leaving for the service he lost it all... He went because it was his duty. He may or may not have liked it. However, when he passed away in 1986 his US Army Dress Uniform was still hanging in the closet! He had kept it and his medals that he had received during his service. In case some of you are wondering... No he did not serve in Korea, he missed the boat, quite literally! (Actually the whole company did) He did however serve on an ice breaker in Labrador. (I am unsure why the Army was on a Navy ship?)
Anyway back to the subject... Draft, no Draft, we were all soldiers when we served. We were brothers in arms, and now with more and women in Combat areas it is Brothers and Sisters in Arms. There are a lot more women in the military today than there were when I was in the Army in 1975-1978 and they were called WAC's when my father was in the Army. I agree with Dr Frank, if a person has served in the military, they have the right to voice their opinion either supporting the draft or opposing the draft. I personally feel that the quality of soldier is better without the draft, but I don't have any scientific facts to back that up. It is just my opinion...
What do you think... Higher quality with draft...or with out it???
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John J. Weaver
US Army 1975-1978
USAR (inactive)1978-1983
This is Frank D writing, and I would like to say that I am not a PhD, so there is no need to call me Dr. Frank. Frank Tims is an MD, and he is a Dr. I have a Masters Degree in history, and so far thats it. Thanks anyway.
I'm hoping though that you are a prophet, and that I may earn a PhD in the future. If so you may be able to call me Dr. Frank someday.
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RE:Heroic Individuals And The Draft.
(Date Posted:10/03/2008 09:17:39)
There are many levels of service and heroism. I think the act of volunteering for service says something about the individual. I lead a group of Force Protection security personnel in Baghdad, Iraq in 2006-2007. The people, that volunteered for the deployment, far out-shined those that were told. But, all these troops voluntarily enlisted. WWII had a large amount of draftees and they paid the price and won a tough war. Volunteering may be an indicator, but I have seen non-volunteers step up and serve well. Draftees can step up. But, I heard from a lot of draftees give me the old advice of "never volunteer" when I joined up or deployed. I personally prefer a volunteer next to me when the shit hits the fan.
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"History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
For the subject!!! 
