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USAREUR
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:99
Posts:99
From: USA 
Registered:03/05/2008
Time spent: 13585 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/03/2009 15:56:42)
I voted in the affirmative on this one. My only need is that dod or whoever handles it is they update my DD214 showing that it is legit.
Jon
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Aimoo Team
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/03/2009 16:58:22)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Guest
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/03/2009 17:27:45)
I would pay for a Cold War Medal, but I really don't think cost (especially given the actual projected cost estimated by C.B.O.) is the real reason for congressional resistance. I think the cost issue is a convenient and acceptable echo of the DOD's objections which I also think are subterfuge for the real reasons they object. I can't fully understand why influential Armed Services Committee leaders like Levin and McCain are against the medal, but my guess is that they might think that in the long term, granting war veteran status (which they may believe award of a medal might for all intents and purposes do) to Cold War veterans could represent a substantial financial liability (a real concern or a perceived one makes no difference), and I also think that they may think its undeserved....that Cold War veterans are not war veterans, and that the Cold War wasn't a real war. I think they may truly believe this, and I think most Americans think the same way. I'd love to get past the expedient answers and actually find out truly why Levins and McCain are against it. Seems that unless we had real contact within the inner circle, all we'll ever get for explanation is the usual canned response.
T.B.
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/03/2009 18:46:49)
We should pay for the medal. Buy one for Levin and McCain also. Tell them this is a gift for everything that they did for us.
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USAREUR
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:99
Posts:99
From: USA
Registered:03/05/2008
Time spent: 13585 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 03:02:12)
To T.B. Guest,
You are probably right on all of your post but by the process of elimination perhaps we can erase all of their arguments. We can eliminate the cost factor first. Of course we have to get something into the 2010 NDAA for a start, either work on Obama or Congress.
A second guest comment sounds good but I think we should buy the medal for the whole G.D. Committee. Though Levin and/or McCain had enough pull to have passed it. According to Levin's bio he was a typical draft dodger. Sooo, Paul whats your take on this, I'm on record for 1 each medal...
Jon
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PastNikeVet
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:499
Posts:499
From: USA
Registered:11/21/2006
Time spent: 8278 hours
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 04:46:05)
Before buying for Levin or McCain or anyone else in poltics lets buy our Hero's the Medal and present them this May 1st in D.C. after all they have earned them.
BTW make note of this folks this idea is ACWV and for those CWVA members stopping in the fact its dated prior, by no means can you can use this idea Unless Our Permision has been granted if you want in go to Sean Egan and be involved do so for Cold War Veterans we are will to share as long as you please ask.
Glen
Undique Venimus
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http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
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pdudkowski
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7#
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Rank:none
Status:Navy Veteran
Score:221
Posts:221
From: USA
Registered:01/04/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 06:30:04)
When I put up the poll, it was prompted by another thread where a guest asked or indicated nobody put up a poll to take the pulse on individual purchases. My answer was "buy one and then apply for the freebie." I would never advise sending medals to anyone who did not meet the criteria of the "maybe" medal. Deep down, if earned, a Veteran should never have to pay for any medal and all existing medals allow for a second one free of charge if the first is no longer serviceable or lost or stolen. I think it sends the wrong message if we acted in a fashion that said we were willing to pay, as policy, and all Veterans who earned a medal would do the same. It is counter to the award system currently in place.
By saying we would purchase our own and remove the financial burden from the government, wouldn't we come across as a group of self serving individuals who only have a desire to get a medal for the sake of having a medal? Our critics would be right. More chest candy, fruit salad or some other derogatory comments would be the norm, especially for those who have been recognized for other service during that period.
In the executive committee e-mails going around, there is a similar discussion on the criteria and most say they do not do this for themselves but for all the others. Sorry to say I don't buy that position entirely. I think the original idea of a medal to call our own was the original driving force for our involvement and I know if it ever bore fruit, I would like to think I had a hand in getting the damn thing approved. I can envision myself handing them out at a Legion meeting to all qualifying Vets and receiving the thanks that would by then be well deserved. I also very much would like to present one to my dad, a Korean Combat Vet, before he is no longer with us. I'm not going to lie and say I do this for a higher purpose alone.
I dare say that, as policy, if we abandoned the medal and focused on the other agenda items, interest would fade and we would become a shadow of what we are or could become. The other items are noble and worthy of our efforts but to bottom line it, no medal means lost interest and maybe the eventual demise of the ACWV. This dose of personal honesty is refreshing for me and in no way intended to disrespect those with opposing views.
(Message edited by pdudkowski On 02/04/2009 10:23:41)
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Paul V. Dudkowski
Charter Member, ACWV
US Navy, 1973 to 1978
"Dedicated to the Cause"
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lostexair
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:257
Posts:257
Registered:11/16/2006
Time spent: 10809 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 08:21:52)
I agree with Paul. I would not buy my own, I don't know of any others that had to, it would just lend credence to their, oh" it was a vacation" remark for Cold War service. If it is not codified and made available and given the same respect as the KDSM, AFSM, ADSM, or NDSM, I wouldn't have it. Those who served in Grenada and Panama are still trying to get their service recognised too. I would not give them the pleasure of buying my own, or go along with their theory that my service was just "civil service"!
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USAF 1976-1981
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 08:54:05)
Well, then you guys who do not wish to 'buy my medal," I do not know exactly what options you have at this point in time. The cost factor as set by the DoD will always be there. They will always use that same argument and it will always carry a lot of weight. In NYS, the govenor there said; "no way to a CWSM." He said, again, that it is too much money. NYS is a pivitol state for a number of events. Perhaps if the people in NYS agreed to "pay for the medal," then perhaps it might have led to fruition. Maybe, maybe not. That state could have been a "test state" on this issue.
Don't depend on Obama for anything. He is in a big mess now with the economy the way it is. So, I do not know how many more years you wish to keep fighting the DoD and or the Congress for the medal. I feel we should consider it once and for all by "paying for our recognition." Remember, there were a multitude of guys deployed overseas who NEVER received not even a single itty bitty service ribbon for deployment. As you know, it is very tough to get the DoD to make any service awards retroactive. So, consider what is at stake, and what our true options are at this time.
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 12:36:01)
My two cents
I agree with Paul as well, but I also think we should never give up the fight for something that is deserving to the Cold War Veteran, it WILL happen one day! DOD is opposed because of two reasons the first being the dates 1945 to 1991 that's alot of veterans to make an award retroactive, number two is the cost $$$, we have been fighting on two fronts, and for the last few years pouring money into fighting modern warfare IED'S, VBIED'S and developing better equipment for the troops and maintaing two fronts Iraq and Afghanistan that's alot of cabbage DOD needs all the money they can get to sustain! Lets face it the last thing
DOD is worried about at this point is the Cold War Vet and his medal. Timing is everything. I say we keep pounding on doors until one opens. Our new Commander and Chief just might be the one to make it happen in time, but we need to keep up the fight the squeeky wheel gets the grease. I also think if one is approved it will be a Cold War Service Medal, or a European Defense Medal not a Cold War Victory Medal, think about which makes the most sense.
Just my rant
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Shuman 14
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11#
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Rank:none
Score:188
Posts:188
From: USA
Registered:12/17/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 13:58:12)
While I have and still do buy Medals/Ribbons when I need them, they should be awarded. Most service medals and ribbons, you only get a Memorandum for Record.
Example, my reserve unit went overseas for AT. Everyone that went got a ARCOTR (Army Reserve Overseas Training Ribbon).
First Drill back when we signed out for the day they handed us a blanket Memorandum for Record with everyones name on it and and your name highlighted in yellow. No ceremony, not even the ribbon itself.
Same with my second NDSM and my GWOTSM. They were placed on my DD-214 when I DEMOBED. Had to buy them at the PX.
FYI, neither the NDSM or the GWOTSM get you any status as a veteran. They don't count for Civil Service veterans status or get you anything at the VA either. They're not considered "campaign" medals.
So regardless if a Cold War Medal is called a "Victory" "Service" or "Campaign" medal, is how it's coded that will determine a Cold Warriors status for benefits.
Which will be the same that they have or don't have now, but at least they will have the recognition that is rightly due.
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Joseph J. Clune
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Aimoo Team
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 16:35:06)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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PastNikeVet
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:499
Posts:499
From: USA
Registered:11/21/2006
Time spent: 8278 hours
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 19:23:53)
Well damn is buying the Medal for our Forgotten Heros wrong?
Paul I agree if awarded the goverment should foot the cost, yet the foot dragging by the politics as well the fact those whom we speak for that are unable as ask from giving their life will take what the next 30 years before being honored ?
Shall we have a vote on getting the CWVM for our Heros, then again Frank T. presented Gen.VanFleet one that was purchased have we not set that standard, getting our own is a seperate issue so was the idea nix or the idea of buying our own that is being nixed?
Was I wrong to mix that in with this issue ?
As for Pauls point I feel its well made about paying for our own I stray from it when it comes to buying them to present them for the fallen.
Glen
Undique Venimus
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http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/05/2009 11:41:37)
You guys who wish to wait until the DoD agrees to give it to you, just keep on waiting and waiting. I do not see anyway you will get this CWSM without buying it from the DoD. Remember, this $900 billion dollar bailout bill does not include any money for a CWSM. It is more important that drug re-hab buildings be built and planting more flowers around federal buildings, than it is for you to get this medal. So while you are waiting and waiting for this medal, just keep on drinking that Kool-aid.
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lostexair
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15#
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Rank:none
Score:257
Posts:257
Registered:11/16/2006
Time spent: 10809 hours
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:02/05/2009 18:28:49)
Reply to is_Aimoo_Guest (02/05/2009 11:41:37)
You guys who wish to wait until the DoD agrees to give it to you, just keep on waiting and waiting. I do not see anyway you will get this CWSM without buying it from the DoD. Remember, this $900 billion dollar bailout bill does not include any money for a CWSM. It is more important that drug re-hab buildings be built and planting more flowers around federal buildings, than it is for you to get this medal. So while you are waiting and waiting for this medal, just keep on drinking that Kool-aid. While I said I would not buy the medal myself, I meant to say, not unless it is codified and entered upon my DD214 or DD215. If it is allowed for wear on a uniform, yes I would buy it, as I had to buy all the all ribbons sent to me by the Air Force through the mail because the sorting machine smashed them. The qualifier is, entered in the DD214/215. I don't disrespect anyone who purchases commemorative medals, that is their right. If I didn't get any medals or ribbons during my service, I would definitely get every commemorative that applied to my service.
I don't think anyone is waiting for a medal. I have one medal and six ribbons, and I believe the folks who run ACWV have campaign and war service medals. We are well aware of the "status" placed upon Cold War Vets and their service, that's what they are working to change. We have an association web page to be proud of, and our own patch. I drink tea myself.
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USAF 1976-1981
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/06/2009 20:46:02)
I voted, absolutely yes. Most military folks end up paying for their own medals anyway - regular size AND miniratures - several times over. Every time you manage to get a new one, then all of the previous ones need to be remounted too (and the scam is that the cost of re-using the olds ones or buying new ones is damn near the same). Bottom line, just grant me the medal that I've earned; Uncle Sam can keep the damn 5 bucks.
USMC_Kinda_Guy
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/08/2009 19:47:39)
Yes: We pay for our medals as is it. The orders are free, and if you must, you pay for the medal. If The Cold War Medal is not authorized during the current administration, it will be lost to history. After eight years of Bush, we never saw its authorization. I hope President Obama will just sign the executive order, and be done with it. He could sign said executive order in less time that it would take us to use the latrine in sit down mode. I really hope he could do this for us, because Congress will not. A good motto for The Senate is: " The U.S. Senate where ideas go to die." Remember the folks in the district care only about theirselves. They are well paid, protected, and have full medical coverage. Welcome to America.
WILLIAM P. BOYLE
N.J. State Director, ACWV.
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Guest
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 06:54:34)
We still, I think need to push very hard for congressional and senatorial bills authorizing Cold War Medal. Are we getting any action on this? I continually write my representatives, but they always say they'll support it if it comes to floor. They won't introduce legislation apparently or co-sponsor anything. Are there any representatives out there that might? I thought I read somewhere that New Hampshire might introduce into 2010 NDAA.
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rodevito
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19#
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Registered:08/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 11:27:13)
You keep forgetting that the CWSM will still cost money. Our government is cutting deep into the bone marrow of our economy to get it out of this recession. Whether Obama signs an executive order, Congressmen and Senators pass it through legislation, it will still cost money. What pork will they cut out to get the money for a CWSM? How will you deal with opposition from the DoD? People tried to get the Cold War Medal Act passed through legislation, and it failed. It is not even on the radar screen again at this time. SO, let us just realize that what we did in the past did not work. Try a new approach to get a CWSM through purchasing it. Is it fair that we should have to pay for our medal..no! Does it set a precident for future military medal awards, who knows? Will the DoD and or the Congress still reject a CWSM even if we agree to pay for it, there is only one way to find out. How many decades did it take for the Merchant Marine members to get recognized as WW2 veterans? None of us are getting any younger. How many more years/decades do we have to go through with this? Do we want our children, grandchildren to pick up where we left off in trying to get recognition? I say if we have a chance to receive recognition for our Cold War service by making a purchase, then let's do it. Those that wish to pay for the medal can. Those that do not want to pay for the medal, can go without it. The ten, fifteen, twenty dollars for the cost of the medal is not going to break anyone's bank.
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 15:55:31)
We need to send the results of this unoffical look to the President with his message to us from before the election and see if he would issue an executive order that will cost the taxpayer nothing and show our good faith in support of a balanced approach....
Just a thought!
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JIM WELLER
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21#
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Rank:none
Status:Still Serving
Score:388
Posts:388
From: USA
Registered:05/19/2008
Time spent: 13245 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/10/2009 07:55:59)
I think the admin costs are greater than the medal cost. Cold War vets are not second class veterans. Paying for the CWSM seems wrong, although I have bought some medals that I was awarded in my personnel record that I never received. I never received a DD Form 215 to update a medal that was created after the fact. I think Obama could simply cut an executive order that entitles anyone with a Honorable Discharge with service during the Cold War Era to a CWSM. If we go as far as paying for a CWSM, we could even petition the DOD to allow the wearing of a commemorative medal on the uniform. Veteran association medals were allowed on the uniform many decades ago. There is also a history of PAPER awards becoming medals (Certificate of Merit, Commendation Ribbon/Medal). Hopefully, the Cold War certificate will become a medal. I say let's continue the fight.
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Pennsylvania Keystone State Director ACWV
"History does not entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
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pdudkowski
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22#
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Rank:none
Status:Navy Veteran
Score:221
Posts:221
From: USA
Registered:01/04/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/10/2009 10:03:55)
Jim, I've struggled with "admin" costs in past. I can't see that as a problem. Unless they were to hire additional staff, and they wouldn't, there is no significant cost. Materials such as paper, envelopes and postage would be the extent. Since those people employed by DoD or whatever branch would be appointed lead agency already exist, it would just become busy work. They could argue that the time they spent = X hours at $X / Hr. to get a figure but that would be bogus. As I said, they already work there and do whatever they are assigned.
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Paul V. Dudkowski
Charter Member, ACWV
US Navy, 1973 to 1978
"Dedicated to the Cause"
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/11/2009 07:37:20)
We need to hit K Street, and engage a well connected lobbying firm. Parhaps a collection could be taken to cover the costs of such services.
SQUIRREL
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Guest
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/15/2009 17:25:22)
I think paying for your own medal defeats the entire purpose of a medal. If I have to pay for it I will not wear it.
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Guest
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/15/2009 18:20:08)
Sure I'd pay for it. There was no GI Bill for me and many others. I guess that some feel that just standing on Green Ramp at Bragg bag and bag loaded and ready to go to a hot spot, and then getting the stand down notice does not count.How about patrolling the East/West German Border standing "ON THE RAMPARTS OF FREEDOM"? Standing for this nation and saying YOU SHALL GO NO FURTHER.Well maybe it's not that important or deserving of anything. All I know is that I stood my watch and they did not cross to endanger the Free World. What do I know?
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Guest
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/16/2009 02:27:38)
Yes I would. Best chance at this time to make a CWVM a reality.--------------------------LCPLE3
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Ol Duke
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27#
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From: USA
Registered:02/19/2009
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/19/2009 12:13:45)
As long as this has been going on....sure, I'd pay for it. All they need to do is authorize it and to purchase one, show your DD214 or Certificate of Recognition as a Cold War participant.
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Thanks,
Ol'Duke
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Rojoshovel
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28#
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From: USA
Registered:01/24/2009
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To USAREUR
(Date Posted:02/20/2009 08:01:07)
Reply to USAREUR (02/03/2009 15:56:42)
I voted in the affirmative on this one. My only need is that dod or whoever handles it is they update my DD214 showing that it is legit.
Jon I cannot in good faith pay for this medal. I feel the men and women of the cold war put their lives on the lines just as anybody and we should have the recognition as does anyone else. I put my life on the line as did the rest of you, but I cannot get VA care or any other benefits. The only benefits I have, as do many others, is I get to be buried in a VA cemetary, have a flag on my coffin, and can buy a house with a VA loan. Do I want a pat on the back? Sure. So do the millions that served. Given what I know now, I would still serve as I did. So what is the big deal about giving a medal to the vets that served? We deserved it!! God Bless all of the Vets that walked the lines, Flew the missions, Sailed the coasts. We all knew the consequences of our duties and did them to the best of our abilities. Videmus Omnia, Ron Johnson USAF,SSGT, 81-87
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USAREUR
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29#
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Rank:none
Score:99
Posts:99
From: USA
Registered:03/05/2008
Time spent: 13585 hours
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RE:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/21/2009 02:21:34)
Ron,
Its not that I don't agree with you but its the pragmatist in me speaking. Give it a few years of getting shot down by Congress, DOD, etc. and you may change your mind, I did. Welcome aboard Ron...
Jon
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genielibanon
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30#
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Rank:none
Status:lebanon war veteran
Score:49
Posts:49
From: Netherlands 
Registered:02/03/2008
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:Would you pay for your own medal?
(Date Posted:02/23/2009 10:31:11)
no problem to pay...
but i need the right to wear it!
i have now the fox medal , i have it a list in my office
but... i still mis the certificate...
but i am not an american...
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we don't remember the day's , only the moments
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